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Mon, Feb. 2nd, 2009, 05:41 pm
58468_0: [sysop post] The waiting game

Hi all again~ I've been waiting for a solid response from Womby about what's going on with the Wiki, but he's been ridiculously busy with work as usual so I think it'll be a little bit longer.

I want to apologize for what many read as a pretentious/rude/mine's-a-high-horse comment in my last entry telling you not to support copies of the Wiki. My message was misconstrued and I should also probably learn to express myself better. =/ What I meant was that these copies of the Wiki are not run by the original Asian Wiki and we don't really have anything to do with them. In other words, they're not us and it's not us doing the contributing. It's true they can take our information, but I find it a bit rude when they go to the trouble of taking our logo. Of course, you're more than welcome to help these sites out. It's been extremely difficult for me the past several months living without the wiki - I'm so used to going there several times a day just to look up information like the rest of you, so I really understand your pain! (The internet's so boring right now. D:) Everyday I see new information that I want to add into the site (like Okamoto Rei's new album and singles, STEREO PONY goodness, Goto Maki's comeback, idols dying/divorcing/getting busted for drugs) and then I remember that I can't anymore. At this point there's nothing more I want from the internet right now than for the site to come back.

I read all of your comments and I will be getting back to the ones requiring answers shortly. I speak for all of the admins when I say that we appreciate your support so incredibly much, and it's great to know that many of you are still willing to stick with us while you're subjected to this crap. The Wiki would barely exist without you in the first place, so thank you very, very much.

As always, I will update again when I know more. <3

Tue, Feb. 3rd, 2009 12:27 am (UTC)
technoreverie

I'm just glad for an update. ^-^
As long as there's some hope for the wiki returning, I can wait!
Thank you for giving us an update~

Tue, Feb. 3rd, 2009 01:07 am (UTC)
joekickass

Yeah, as long as we're kept abreast ((lol)) of the situation, I can handle waiting for wiki.theppn to come back. It's always nice to see an update here and there.

But MAN, I miss it a lot.

Tue, Feb. 3rd, 2009 05:05 am (UTC)
ohitscake

Since Womby is busy can't he delegate it to someone else to help sort out.

Tue, Feb. 3rd, 2009 05:23 am (UTC)
58468_0

It would be nice if it were that easy, like pushing a button and everything's back as it was - unfortunately, there's no easy button. There are loads of files stored on Womby's computer(s), not to mention the endless script it takes to run the Wiki. Even back when he would do simple maintenance on the site it would take hours at a time.

I'll let him elaborate more when he gets a chance.

Mon, Feb. 9th, 2009 05:56 am (UTC)
(Anonymous): A variety of future solutions.

I don't know what Womby's backup and safe-backup-storage policies are . . . but if there is another person you can trust, it would be great to have weekly or at least monthly backups sent to some trusted remote party, who could then use those for two important things:

A) If Womby's machines catch fire, we don't lose everything.

B) In the case of an extended outage like this, a semi-official mirror could be put up [noting of course that it's NOT the original wiki, but a temporary mirror!] - you could even temporarily point the main web address to that server. Or you could have something like http://backup.theppn.org that always points to the mirror but is only activated (manually) during downtimes. To keep administration simple, this could be set read-only, so you don't have to worry about ferrying updates back and forth [or further hacking/defacement, in attacks] - it's just that when things went wrong, the community would be still have the "last-known-good" version of the resource.

I *know* there are plenty of willing and capable people in the community (possibly including myself) . . . the issue, of course, is finding a party you trust not to start an unapproved clone site; hopefully a real fan would realize that fracturing the community will do no-one any good.

A further possibility to address the trust issue is encryption: quite simply, provide the mostly-trusted third party with a regular backup, but always encrypt it. Only in the case of downtime do you hand over the password.

On the third hand, if you have a simple weekly backup even kept to yourself [not on the remote, attack-vulnerable server, of course], *this* sort of problem couldn't really occur - if everything breaks, just restore to last week, and everything's back up to speed. Great for data security when doing updates too.
Again, there have to be plenty of people in the community who know a lot about this and would be willing to advise. Plus, you don't have to worry about trust when getting technical advice. All of this can be achieved with readily available and generally free (often open source) tools.

Sat, Mar. 7th, 2009 05:31 am (UTC)
(Anonymous): Re: A variety of future solutions.

....This is a pretty sweet idea.

Why has nobody else responded to this?!

Sat, Feb. 7th, 2009 07:58 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous)

I'd prefer he get someone who can afford to be more dedicated to getting the ppn back up & running; if Womby is that busy, he'll understandbly keep shelving it to a later date.

Mon, Feb. 9th, 2009 01:52 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous)

If you can't admin a site once in 3 months, pass the ownership onto someone else... When you only have five 7's of uptime, someone needs to get axed because they aren't doing the job.

Tue, Feb. 10th, 2009 09:30 am (UTC)
(Anonymous)

Yeah! I demand my money back also!

Tue, Feb. 3rd, 2009 07:44 am (UTC)
themonkeyofdoom

God, I miss the wiki! I'm going nuts thinking about all the pages I need to make and all the free time I'm gonna need for it.

Wed, Feb. 4th, 2009 09:48 am (UTC)
trisha_toyota

AHH!! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR AN UPDATE!! I LOVE YOU!!!


i love wiki!!!

Thu, Feb. 5th, 2009 01:22 am (UTC)
(Anonymous)

The main thing is to know that the data for the wiki is still available and there is a good chance of it being restored 'sometime'. We all have lives off the net and Womby obviously has to eat, so we can understand it's going to take some time. As for the copies, it would actually be a good service if people can provide some access to the data meantime, but only if they give credit to the original wiki! (I have never found any of these copies though, so they must be well hidden)

Thu, Feb. 5th, 2009 05:06 am (UTC)
(Anonymous): anyway

I appreciate the update.
You guys can take as long as you need.
I can wait (i think...)....

Sat, Feb. 7th, 2009 02:22 am (UTC)
temi_tt

Thank you for the update. ^^
I miss wiki so much, I had a dream that it came back, but was so disappointed when I woke up. lol

Sat, Feb. 7th, 2009 03:15 am (UTC)
xlilmisspinayx

Thank you for updating~
I'm trying to patiently wait, but I will wait because this site is awesome and very useful. I hope everything works out :]

Mon, Feb. 9th, 2009 09:26 am (UTC)
(Anonymous)

you said in your message "idols dying/divorcing..."? some idols died? omg can someone give more details?

Thu, Feb. 12th, 2009 06:51 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous)

I definitely miss you guys and I hope that you guys are up and running again soon, because you guys were definitely the only way I knew about new singles and albums by all my favorite singers.

I know that everyone I know that uses Wiki.theppn is waiting for you guys to come back! :D

Sun, Feb. 15th, 2009 05:26 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous)

*angry rant alert*

(I hope there's free speech over here)





Just forget about wiki.theppn.org

It will never come back!

Get real! It has been more than 6 months!



Busy during all this time!?

Then why not release the database and let non-busy people try to get it working?

Isn't that information free for anyone? Or is it under copyright?



The fact that the admins complain about "clones" shows that they just want to hold onto their "precious". That's why they haven't released the database.

They aren't willing to share what was supposedly public and free.



Maybe I'm sounding ungrateful here, but since they're busy, I don't see any valid reason for not releasing the database and let someone else continue the wiki. Wiki's are about communities and not about single individuals.



I would be happy if theppn could prove me I'm wrong... but sadly that won't happen!



And about the clones... it won't make any difference if they aren't willing to put a monthly torrent of their database as well, otherwise history will just repeat itself.

Tue, Feb. 17th, 2009 05:43 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous): Sigh~

I can only agree, we have been waiting too long, time to move on. At least, show us some progress .

Wed, Feb. 18th, 2009 06:12 am (UTC)
(Anonymous)

"More than 6 months"? The wiki went down in November. That said, three months is still a ridiculously long time for a site to be down. It really does look like Womby's abandoned the project, doesn't it? Although I'd like to believe that Wapiko, at least, is genuinely hopeful and not just stringing us along.

Sat, Feb. 21st, 2009 03:03 am (UTC)
slillibri

They can't just "release the database", because the database contains everyone's user information. You know, usernames, passwords, etc.

Sat, Feb. 28th, 2009 06:43 am (UTC)
(Anonymous)

It's not that hard to just upload the wiki itself and not the authentication database (yeah everybody has to make new logins and passwords but that seems like small potatoes now).

Being down this long really is intolerable. The wiki is big but it's not that hard to put multiple gigs on torrents now and have people host the site until the main version comes back.

The admins really should put the wiki up for download online and anybody who can host it can put a copy up for read only access. They can even redirect the official URL to the site with the largest amount of download bandwidth and designate it the "official backup" until the main site is back up.

I know what it's like to be busy too, but seriously it takes 30 minutes to post an official request for hosting sites, and another 30 minutes to setup the torrent for the chosen "main backup" site to download the site overnight.

To the admins; either stay up late one night and spend an hour getting an official backup going; or just put the data (not the authentication info) up on a public torrent and let anybody create the new theppn replacement.
Because I think most people can agree, you've now officially "dropped the ball" on this.

Mon, Mar. 2nd, 2009 03:31 am (UTC)
slillibri

Actually, it is that hard. The wiki data and the authentication data are stored in the same database. Have you ever used MediaWiki, the software that was used to power theppn wiki? Since the problem is that the database files, and the backups, are corrupt there is no easy way to get at the data.

Fri, Mar. 6th, 2009 12:54 am (UTC)
shinigami31

Are the backups really corrupted? If they aren't, it's easy to drop the user data from it.

This seems to be just sheer incompetence.

Tue, Feb. 17th, 2009 10:04 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous): Womby should have read these.

http://adminzen.org/communication/
http://adminzen.org/backup/
http://adminzen.org/problems/
http://adminzen.org/anticipate/

Then maybe we wouldn't be in this mess.

Sat, Feb. 21st, 2009 02:52 am (UTC)
rainie_hana: Other Sites

Just wondering..i read that there's been other similar sites
I've been dying to know how the record sales are for alot of groups
And I can't really understand the oricon website that much
Does anybody mind posing up those other sites where they have information like the old wiki?

Sat, Feb. 21st, 2009 05:50 am (UTC)
deisukonaito

No wiki makes me depressed. I haven't been the same since it's been gone!

Tue, Feb. 24th, 2009 12:26 am (UTC)
jarthel

time to move on? at least j-ongaku is alive! :D

Wed, Feb. 25th, 2009 02:30 am (UTC)
(Anonymous)

A combination of J-Ongaku, Wikipedia, and various random Wiki's and blog entries I've managed to find with Google have been my idol world information.

Sat, Mar. 7th, 2009 05:41 am (UTC)
(Anonymous)

J-Ongaku seems promising... needs a lot of work and hopefully we can find chart and sales info to add (the other site someone mentioned with a charts page seems really poorly-organized). Hopefully the owners know how to make back-up copies unlike friggin' Womby.

Thu, Feb. 26th, 2009 12:57 pm (UTC)
charingyu

glad i found an updates :D

jpop on interent is uncomplete without wiki.theppn , i love reading about my idols : )

I'll wait for it to be back!

Mon, Mar. 2nd, 2009 11:38 am (UTC)
urban_passion: Jpopasia / Oricon

For those that are looking specifically for the 'Oricon Charts', Jpopasia is an excellent site for them. They also have minimal artist pages that can be updated.

Mon, Mar. 2nd, 2009 03:23 pm (UTC)
lemonaddict

Just wondering... Right now it seems highly unlikely that we'll be getting the data back, why don't you just delete everything and start again? Surely it would be easier than trying to recover data that we aren't even sure can be recovered.

Thu, Mar. 5th, 2009 12:52 am (UTC)
(Anonymous)

I still say they should just release the backups out into the public.

Then maybe someone who does have time to look at them can attempt to fix it.

Fri, Mar. 6th, 2009 06:43 am (UTC)
(Anonymous)

http://www.intlwota.com/2009/03/news-theppn-is-back/#comments

Didn't Wapiko denounce the Wikia site?

Fri, Mar. 6th, 2009 07:41 am (UTC)
pengie

sorry, we're editing that post now. someone fed us some bad info... :|

Sat, Mar. 7th, 2009 02:50 am (UTC)
leap4detonation

I think it'd probably be best just to come out and say that the site is done with instead of making everyone wait. It's been down since November or December? Seriously. Quit giving people false hope and just say it's done, or better yet, let someone else take over, because Womby doesn't seem to be doing a damn thing. :/

Sat, Mar. 7th, 2009 05:39 am (UTC)
(Anonymous)

This is being handled quite poorly, I've gotta say. Out of probably countless people who may have offered, you can't think of ANYONE you can entrust with the info, ANYONE with the skills to get things going? Ask. And I really question the capabilities of someone who, from the sounds of it, doesn't have the common sense to back up important data. Particularly, to back things up separately, categorized, if it's so important and sensitive. Copy-past, written instructions, picture files, loaded onto a backup disk as an extra precaution... these things never occurred to you guys?

I mean, come ON.

Sat, Mar. 7th, 2009 03:52 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous)

Just release the FUCKING BACKUPS to the public!!!! Someone who does have the time and skills will fix it.

WE added everything to the wiki, the content wouldn't be there if it weren't for *US*.


JUST GIVE US THE ***FUCKING BACKUPS*** AND WE WILL FUCKING FIX IT OURSELVES.


WANKERS.

Sat, Mar. 7th, 2009 04:42 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous)

Eh, I think it's safe to say it's time to move on guys.

Wikia, j-ongaku, start a new one, whatever. We need to get something going and start getting the information added in. Every day that goes by is more data we are falling behind on. Lets freakin' decide what's going to be the definitive wiki so we can start editing it!

Sat, Mar. 7th, 2009 08:54 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous)

I agree, time to move on. Even if theppn comes back, there is no guarantee that this won't happen again. It has been demonstrated that the admin is not capable of running a reliable system and does not consider that the users and contributors are deserving of the time to even give us reasonable, informative updates. Certainly, he does not have the time to repair, not to back up, not to maintain, not even to ask for help.

Time to move on, sadly, theppn is dead.

Mon, Mar. 9th, 2009 12:31 pm (UTC)
jarthel

theppn is dead! long live j-ongaku?